On the Mark: Episode Two

Erie County Executive Mark C. Poloncarz hosts a discussion with Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel.

Transcript

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 0:05

Hello and welcome to On the Mark, a discussion dedicated to local, state, and national issues affecting government and its bosses, the people. I'm your host, Mark Poloncarz, the Erie County, New York Executive. And in the coming weeks and months, I'll be joined by leaders from across the country to talk about issues that impact us all, from healthcare delivery, budgetary constraints, the effect of recent federal actions on local and state government, actions local government is taking, to infrastructure investment and beyond.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 0:34

But before we begin, I think it's important to discuss my view of government and what is the guiding view of my administration. I believe that government can be a force of good in people's lives, and it should be, because a government at its core is a representation of its people, the embodiment of its collective goals. It should be aspirational in nature, a manifestation of our better angels, and be the captain of the communal ship, setting the course for all. That's my good view of government and how we've managed Erie County's finances for the last 14 years.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 1:07

However, a government is not a static entity. It must be a proactive force to address the needs of its constituents, as well as reactive to support its citizens in the time of need, whether it be in response to a disaster, domestic terrorism, such as occurred in our community in May 2022 at the shooting at the Tops supermarket in Buffalo, and everything that we've all dealt with, including the global pandemic.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 1:32

So let's get started with the discussion on a slightly lighter topic today, but an example of what a government should do, and that's talking about parks, parkland, forestry areas. Erie County is proud to have a tremendous park system with more than 10,000 acres to enjoy, from beaches, golf courses to hiking areas, great recreational areas, as well as hundreds of acres of forest. And today we're joined by our Erie County Parks Commissioner, Troy Schinzel. This is not Troy's uh time first in county government. Actually, Troy joined me uh as the Parks Commissioner uh when I first took office in 2012 at a time we'll talk about when parks were really in disarray in Erie County. And he left with his wife to pursue a job opportunity in Texas, but we were very glad when we were looking for a new commissioner a few years after that when he reached out and said, We're thinking about coming back to Buffalo. Would you be interesting in me getting my job back? And the answer was yes, because he did a great job during that first term and is doing a wonderful job now. So welcome to On the Mark, Troy. And uh tell the people who may not know you uh a little bit more about yourself.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 2:42

Thank you, Mark. I appreciate it. And thanks for having me back for a second time. Um yeah, so I was lucky enough to uh be Commissioner of Parks in 2012 to almost the uh end of 2015. And like you said, I came back in the summer of 2019 to my current uh tenure, and it's been uh it's been an unbelievable ride. But before that, I uh went to, was educated in parks and recreation. I went to school for parks and recreation at Paul Smith's College and Slippery Rock University. And I was fortunate enough to work for a a great uh great county government, another county government in New Jersey. Spent 15 years in county government, New Jersey, several different positions, um, and then came home. That's, was born and raised here. Came home in uh 2011 and uh and in 2012 was honored uh that you appointed me as Commissioner of Parks in Erie County. Uh like you said, uh we left for four years to go to Dallas for an opportunity for my wife. And uh and I actually worked for the City of Dallas Parks. So still , still in the parks wheelhouse. And I helped uh them establish a park ranger program and some other initiatives in Dallas before coming back home.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 3:49

You had experience in establishing a parks ranger program because I did that in our first term, uh in our first term, but uh give the people an idea of how bad the parks department and our parks were when we took over, because it was pretty dire.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 4:06

Yeah, it really was, Mark. It was , it it literally probably took myself six months plus to wrap my hands around the acres, the properties, uh, the buildings, the priorities, uh how do we start prioritizing? What do we need to tackle first? Because it's a lot. Um, you know, we had at that point we had half the full-time staff and currently do today. So, you know, the job is tough today to keep up with the 10,000 acres and the things we do. Think about half the full-time staff we do today. So um it was a lot of infrastructure or neglected infrastructure. And um we've we have collectively worked so hard together to uh bring up to a an unbelievable level.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 4:50

Yeah, well, people when they look at parks, they think, oh, it's just something that you cut the grass. Oh, but there's so much more to it. And when we took over, uh the as you said, the park staff was pretty much decimated. To give you an idea, we have 10,000 acres to enjoy, which most people can't really wrap their head around. But we have one park, Chestnut Ridge Park, which has more than 1,200 acres just in that park alone. That's one of the largest parks, county parks in the United States, and it's countable in size to many state parks. It's not national park size, but it's a big size park. And you need a lot of staff to do more than just cut grass or plow snow in the winter uh just to maintain trails, uh, make sure the recreational areas, the shelters, and the other facilities are in good shape. And when you have a park system this large, it's like a little mini government in itself because you're managing many areas that are different. You've got everything from pocket parks in the city of Buffalo to vast swaths of forestry. We've got beaches, we've got golf courses. What do you think is the toughest part of the job as well as the most rewarding part of the job?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 5:59

The toughest part of the job is um it is, listen, we're we're open 365 days a year. We don't close, we close at night and we have hours like that, but we're always open. And the toughest part of the job is to gear up for a 365-day operation. Uh and and that's from staffing to rentals. It's just, it's the it's the year-round commitment to try to make sure we're doing our very best in every aspect. And it switches, it's not the same, it's not cookie-cutter. We're not doing the same thing in June that we're doing in September that we're doing in December or March, and uh and probably the training of staff has been the biggest hurdle . Um I'm lucky enough to say today we have some really, really good uh strong staff. I can't we say that was always the case. Um to your point, it was, we mow grass with um, coming in and we mow grass and we plow snow. It's so much more than that. The public interaction you know, we'll talk about the Park Ranger Program and the building upkeep. And um, we have skills now within the department that we did not have uh from mechanics to carpenters, electricians, plumbers, um, environmental uh educators, people um that they help us to oversee projects, big projects, million-dollar projects. Uh so I think that's been the biggest obstacle and one that we put a lot of time and energy towards.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 7:20

What about satisfying? What's the most satisfying part of the job?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 7:23

Not very often do I step back uh and smell the roses, but what I do, when I look at uh 2012, 2013, 2026, I'm honestly I'm amazed. I'm amazed. Um to your point, one of the things you've always said is well, we're, our job is to leave it in better shape than we got here. Um I could say without a doubt, it this this department is uh is a department to be reckoned with. We offer so much more to the public in terms of um programming, recreational pursuits, and opportunities and environmental. We offer things that in 2012, well, we couldn't even fathom. I think that's the the most rewarding thing for me is the growth .

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 8:07

Yeah, I definitely can say our park system is in so much better shape than we took at and, and I often say that because uh the parks I like to say are the people's country clubs. Not everybody can afford country clubs, let's say, but and most people can't, but they can go to a park because it's free. And they take ownership of the park. That's their park. Uh and what we find is we want people to feel like not only is it their park, that their park is cared for and managed.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 8:34

And the one thing that I think is important about parks, and we'll get to this other question I have in a second, is these date back decades and decades. And we just celebrated the 100th anniversary of the creation of our park system. And those people back then were stewards for the future. They took what basically, in some areas, was just old farmland and converted for it into forests by planting trees that would not grow and be utilized for at least 20 years. So we have to be stewards of the parks for the future generations that are coming. And in align with that, one of the really cool things about Erie County Park System is it had a tremendous development during the Franklin Roosevelt administration under the Works Progress Administration, which built all kinds of structures, buildings, and the like. It's great, they're historic. However, there's also a downside. So tell me what it's like to try to maintain a historic park system with buildings that uh are beautiful, but are pretty old.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 9:37

Yeah, so there's where the tough decisions need to be made. Um, we just we're having this conversation the other day. Cheston Ridge Park. Park you talked about. There's 15 WPA restroom facilities in Chestnut Ridge Park. We just began renovation, rehabbing our 11th restroom facility. And it's probably the last one we're gonna do, the other four are in locations where it just doesn't make sense to do that, spend that kind of capital investment. But this is the last of the WPA restrooms that were rehabbing. Each one of those is anywhere from probably $350 to $550 [thousand]. No, so to your point, it's amazing that we have these historical structures, casinos, restroom facilities, uh shelters in our parks, but there's a cost to that. And when they were been neglected for decades, that cost comes quickly, and you have to make up a lot of capital investments over the last few decades that we have to get to to get to the level we're at. So there's a cost of that. So tough decisions have to be made from time to time.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 10:38

Yeah, I, it's one of the things that I don't think people truly understand is the cost to maintain structures that already exist. It's like roads, everybody wants their road repaired, they want a new brand new blacktop every year. However, it's very expensive to do a mile of road. As you know, it's very expensive to do a bathroom that dates back 100 years. And of course, they didn't have what it was called the Americans for Disabilities Act. There's nothing about ADA compliance. They were totally different, much more natural than what people expect today. So you have to try to retain the look, but make it a modern facility. And that's not easy.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 11:14

No, no, it was a challenge. But it in in each one of those renovations, we include the accessibility portion of that. Uh obviously, site work portion of that we do. We're trying to make decisions on the construction that uh would lower our maintenance responsibilities moving forward, metal roofs and things of that nature. Um so it's it's been a challenge, and that's just just Chestnut Ridge Park. Yeah, we have five heritage parks and there's WPA structures in all of those .

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 11:37

And I think it's something that what's really neat about our county is in the park system is we have these heritage parks that date back to the WPA area. We have a lot of other parks. And often people will go to their park and not get to the others. Yeah. We saw a change during COVID when people started coming around to other parks just to see what the other parks were like when they really couldn't go anywhere else. But it it's tough when you have uh Chestnut Ridge Park's a good example, it is the largest park. It gets the most foot traffic, but there are other parks, Ellicott Creek, Como, Akron Falls, or the newer parks, which aren't that new, but not WPA era, Sprague Brook and the like. And there are still thousands and thousands of people that are coming through there on an annual basis. And we're talking about a, as you said, 365 days a year, which in the Buffalo area means it may be 80 degrees out now. It could be eight degrees in January, but you still have activities. Yeah, we still have skiing, we have skating, we have sledding, and and that would that that requires basically a whole different mentality, doesn't it?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 12:38

Yeah, it in a really , I give our staff a lot of credit, right? The same staff that are mowing grass and maintaining restrooms and opening up shelters and welcoming public, or the same staff that are uh grooming sled hills and cross country skiing. Uh so it's it's it's it's a job that you have to want to do to do. And it's it's not easy, and I and I give our staff a ton of credit for that, but we've uh we've ramped up to do that. Um it's a challenge, but it's been it's been an amazing ride.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 13:07

Yeah, what's really cool about government is you have an opportunity to do something that makes people's lives better. And we see that in the parks. Very rarely do you run into someone who's angry or unhappy about something in the parks. They're happy, whether it's hiking or sledding in the winter uh or ice skating. We've got these multiple large natural areas where people can skate, play hockey, uh, and in the same area watching people play soccer during the summer in those areas.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 13:35

So as you consider the needs going forward, now that we've invested a lot and we've invested millions and millions in our parks over the tenure, uh, what do you think is the biggest thing going forward? Is it we are going to try to expand the offerings or is it just maintaining it at a level it is today?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 13:54

Uh it's a combination of both. I think one of the exciting projects we're currently working on is Willowdale. That's uh that's a 180-acre expansion in an area of uh Erie County, frankly, that we do not, we're not well represented. So um, you know, that park slash golf course in the next two, three years is going to be just an amazing addition to our our roster, but certainly for the people in that area to use that uh in that park, that golf course, the park is going to be amazing.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 14:23

Yeah, for those who aren't familiar or from this area, uh Willowdale is a project to convert the old Westwood Country Club in the town of Amherst, which was an 18-hole golf course, to uh restoring nine of the holes and then creating another, the area that was the other nine, a passive park where people could walk around and see wildlife. But it's in the town of Amherst, which uh does not have a county park right now. The town has more than 120,000 residents. That's larger than a significant portion of the counties in the United States. So this is going to be a very large park in a in an area that is hustling and bustling. And it's something new that we're offering, and I think that's the key is that we were able to occasionally offer something new to our residents. It costs money to do it. This is gonna cost how much?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 15:08

Well, we're $7 million in right now. Uh, we know that investment's gonna increase over the years. Uh, but it's it's the cost of doing business to renovate a nine hole, old golf course. Uh it used to be 18 where it turned into uh nine-hole golf course, seven in the original holes dating back to the Westwood Country Club and create a park. Um, but there will be restroom facilities there, accessible playgrounds there, there'll be a pro shop. We we need to do the maintenance building. So we're seven million already in. Um and there'll be continued investments, and that's just not even the staff.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 15:40

And the nice well, it's, it's interesting because people in general want their taxes lowered. However, they also want their taxes that are , they paid to be spent in something that they feel is worthwhile. And there's uh, as much as I heard through the years, "Hey, Poloncarz lower my taxes." Very rarely have I said, or heard somebody say, hey, lower my taxes and close a park. They go, they don't want their parks closed. They don't want their libraries closed, they don't want these things that create quality of life, they actually want more investment in them. And and that's what we try to do, but it's difficult when you're managing budgets to do it in a manner that you can meet all the needs of the community uh and at the same time lower taxes because that's that's tough to do. Our expenses go up annually just like everyone's.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 16:28

Give me an example of what you've seen in the budgets for the parks department. Let's say the 2026 budget, just compared to the 2022 budget. How much have your costs gone up and impacted your ability to then provide services unless we say go ahead and increase your budget? We'll find a way to pay for it.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 16:47

Um it, it's big uh they've increased. They are going to increase. The cost of consumables, the cost of construction material, the cost of salaries, uh, the cost of fringe. Everything's going up. Uh so um we cannot maintain the parks at the level it's currently at unless, unless decisions of removing certain parts of them or not doing certain what that's quite frankly, I feel, I believe you feel, needs to be done to maintain them at a very high level among it is going to go up. And um there's a cost of that.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 17:17

I truly believe the people in Erie County understand the value within the parks department and the parks that they visit. And uh and if they're not, they should be because there's there's opportunity for everyone in one way or another. Whether you want to golf, uh, you want to go on a picnic, you want to walk, you want to swim at a beach, you want to camp at a campground. We have a, I believe, we have everything perfectly. So the costs are going to continue to go up. We need to be smart and and we need to be proactive in how we're going to maintain these areas. I never wanted to create a department that was simply was just too cost effective to maintain. So we've had to make some hard decisions. Some structures are no longer with us because of that. Some things that we wanted to do, maybe we don't do this year or next because of just uh the budgeting. It's a tough time to add new initiatives and things.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 18:05

I'm not gonna ask you which is your favorite county park because that'd be like asking a parent which is their favorite kid.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 18:11

That's correct.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 18:12

But of the parks outside of Erie County, what is your favorite park, National, State, County that you visited, and why?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 18:19

Oh um.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 18:21

Put you on the spot.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 18:23

Yeah, so uh it, in Texas, I was at Cattle Lake, uh it was probably probably the neatest. It was that, it's on the border, obviously, Louisiana and Texas, and we got to spend uh about a week there, and just to be in from Buffalo, the geography was just amazing to me. Uh it's the only, the only natural lake in the state of Texas, and just the border with the, with the swamp grasses and the moss. And look, I fell in love with the place. Uh my wife and I got to visit there to bring the dogs there. I think you know, I've been in, I've been in Colorado, I've been out there visiting some areas, but that was just such a unique lake, park. It's surrounded all by park and the entire lake structure. Um that just always rings up there as a special place. Some memories came up on the phone a couple days ago. I shared them with my wife going, remember this, and uh, it was just something I've never seen before. Yeah, really neat.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 19:18

That's cool. It's the kind of stuff that you can find, especially when they people think in parks, they think of national parks like Yellowstone. Uh but there's these smaller parks that maybe you never heard of that may be maintained by a county or a state, and they are astronomical. That reminds me, I took a trip with my father across country who went to Yellowstone, but a couple people say you got to get to Custer State Park in South Dakota, which was phenomenal. It was absolutely incredible. And it was a state park that I hadn't heard of until somebody told me about it, and was back down there when I was back in South Dakota a couple years later, checked it out again just because it was such a cool park.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 19:54

Uh I want to ask you what's upcoming in the Erie County Parks Department with regards to events, because it's not just about maintaining parks, it's about providing recreation activities and other things through our Park Ranger Program. So do we have some really cool things in the upcoming weeks and months?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 20:07

Yeah, I, first thing I'll say is just check our website. There's so much activity and so many things happening, but we have uh, we have Friday Field Days ongoing. We have the senior hike.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 20:19

Now, what is that?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 20:19

Uh so Friday Field Days are an opportunity for people to sign up and work with our environmental senior, environmental compliance and and make a difference. Uh, go to different parks and make a difference, whether it's in vasives, whether it's plantings, whether it's cleanups.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 20:31

So we have people getting their hands dirty and they get to do things?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 20:33

Yeah, people can people can help us out, um, which will be talking about partnerships forever. Uh, and then we have the uh the the senior hikes, working with the Office of aging, partnering with them, Erie County, we offer senior hikes, senior-led hikes, and we have staff. It could be a park ranger or it could be uh, a various staff that we have within house, and they'll they'll take hikes in various parks. And there's different levels from moderate to easy. Um, and uh those have been a big success.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 20:58

We're at the fair. We'll be at the fair. Please visit us at the fair of the year. We have tabling events at the Bisons' games as well. Um, and we just, um the Adventure Bus. I will say we uh, we had a press conference this morning at the Eternal Flame to talk about safety. And we, our Park Rangers are all over our 10,000 acres. And if anyone ever wants to take a guided walk to the Eternal Flame, uh if you have any trepidations about safety and what's it look like, sign up for one of those, our guided Park Ranger hikes, because it's more than just hike, right? Educational, they, they tell you about the history of the park, the history of the Eternal Flame, they can answer any questions on our 10,000 acres.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 21:37

They seem to know every tree.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 21:40

They do. Uh uh when people ask me questions, either ask your Park Ranger, I'll defer them. But they do a great job. And and anyone that wants to know more than , about the Eternal Flame, take it, ask questions. But you're going on safely guided hike to the Eternal Flame. There's a NFTA bus this week, leaves from downtown at 9 :45 a.m. And , and then later this month there's another guided Eternal Flame hike. Uh July 29th, I believe. And then in September, early September, there's another one. So we like offering those. They get great participation.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 22:10

One more question and before we wrap up is, we've had some interesting uh partnerships with like private businesses to get more people in the parks. And one of those is with local breweries. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 22:22

Yeah, the starting, uh started a few years ago, and it's really developed into an annual event. We work with Resurgence, 42 North, and they have Pints in the Parks events, and they uh , obviously, they partner with us to run those events in several parks, and it's not just the same parks, and uh they're always well attended. And they're, they're good partnerships. Um, the thing that has really elevated our department to the next level, I would say, along with the full-time staff commitment and the capital commitment, is the partnerships we have. 2012 we probably had four legal partnerships. Today we probably have 15 to 20. Um, help us maintain parks, help us maintain trails, help us maintain disc golf courses, help us maintain uh snowmobile trails. So we have so many great partners that help us.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 23:08

And that's, that's kind of a way to save money and help us uh have the investment for our community here. And that's a perfect example of of why people care about parks.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 23:17

Yeah.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 23:18

Uh, you don't hear partnerships about maintaining roads. You don't hear partnerships about assisting with regards to health care. We have that. But it's not like people saying, "Hey, I want to volunteer my time to go to a clinic to deal with someone who's got measles." Yes. But when it comes to the parks, people want to volunteer their time. They want to be part of a group to actually make a park better.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 23:39

Yeah, yeah.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 23:40

So once again, we've joined by our Parks Commissioner for the Erie County Department of Parks Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel. I want to thank him for joining us here today.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz 23:51

This is On the Mark, a discussion on government, whether it's local, state, or national. And I guarantee you, regardless of where you live, you can go probably within a few miles of your house and find a park and get out and enjoy your parks, just like we say, we have more than 10,000 acres to enjoy in your Erie County Parks. And we hope you find your next adventure in a park near you. Take care, everyone.

Commissioner of Parks, Recreation & Forestry Troy Schinzel 24:12

Thank you.